209Vibe Blog
Reviews, criticism and genres
Ian Hill / 209Vibe editorPosted April 26 at 08:14 AM
209Vibe street team member Jordin Harris has been ruffling some feathers lately with her reviews of local hardcore shows. A hardcore fan herself, Harris is focused on providing her honest opinion on the bands she's reviewing.
That's meant at times criticizing the cookie-cutter bands in the local scene - an opinion that's refreshing and hasn't been expressed publicly or professionally in the past.
The 209 has a big enough scene that we should expect it to be inventive, original and talented; we should be setting the trend, not following it. Bands should always be hungry and striving to play in front of more and more fans, not thinking they're superstars once they can fill a 200-capacity club.
Harris calls out the bands that she sees as the followers.
Of course, the bands - and their fans - haven't always appreciated it. They've been somewhat blindsided given that there's never been a true critic of their scene, and they've let me know it with the occasional MySpace message dotted with curses.
(But their response hasn't been anywhere near as child-like as that of some of the area restaurant owners who have received bad reviews. There have been rumors of threats against restaurant reviewers who dare to say that the steak they ordered rare should've come rare, not cooked until it's gray.)
What they don't realize is that criticism comes with any art, particularly music. The bands that get ahead in the scene are the ones who accept criticism and act professional by using the reviewer's opinion to improve or, at least, respectfully disagree with the reviewer.
After all, you'll never know what you can do better unless someone tells you what you might be doing wrong in the first place. And label and industry reps don't look too fondly on young artists who let their emotions get the best of them and ostracize reviewers.
It's important to note that most local musicians understand this. The number of local bands and artists who've told me they seek criticism over the past three years far outweighs the number who've complained recently.
This also means 209Vibe, obviously, must be open to professional criticism itself. We want your opinions, we need your opinions, and we want you to share them with everyone so that we can be held accountable for what we do.
If you disagree with an online review, please post your opinion in the comment section of the review. We also print criticism in the letters section of our monthly newspaper. Just send an email to letters@209Vibe.com with your full name and the name of the city in which you live.
If we have the power to do something better, we'll try and do it.
That's included recently adding two genres to our artist profiles: Metalcore and Christian hardcore. We've heard from some local bands who've said they've been unfairly classified as hardcore when they actually fall into one of these other two genres.
MySpace, however, doesn't offer metalcore or Christian hardcore as an option.
We've added them in response to your concerns. If you have any other ideas, don't hesitate to let us know.
Comments
great new site..but...it is 80% rap or hip hop and a small % of rock..why is there no country..it is the biggest money maker in california and the central valley..i am a songwriter for paramount and cant believe there is no country on here.i am from stockton and think it is sad that we as a city are not that diverse...anyone let me know why??
I would say this was a great debate but it is not. First off for anyone who wants to have a show reviewed send out an invite to the 209VIBE staff(or send in a review and who knows they might just print or post it.) Why do bands like The Devil Wears Prada or the Used get a higher profile(well like it or not more people have heard of them and are interested in seeing them.) 209VIBE, The Record, The Modesto Bee are all about getting people to read what they have to say. If a La Circa cover story gets people to read what else is going on I am all for that. I was glad to see Tim Gardea bring The Warriors/Elysia show to the 209 as with the Used the more live entertainment of all genres the better. True fans don't care what is writen about the bands they love and the bands shouldn't get bent over a little negative criticsm. Not every body is going to like what you do. 209Claws Up if "true hardcore" was bigger in the 209 you wouldn't be able to do what you do(because promoters(with more money) who don't love the genre would come in and book shows until they oversaturated the market and noone cared anymore(or it became so trendy that the "true fans moved on to something else." Book the bands you like, play your music weather someone likes you or not, go see the bands you want and don't worry if your "scene" is represented the way you think it should. Music is personal either you like something or you don't the choice is always yours.
I think I'm missing the point here, and maybe someone can help me out. Someone wrote some reviews of the shows they were able to attend, and some other people disagreed with that review. If that is generally correct, then I'm not sure why things go beyond that. I don't see people arguing their opinions over music. I see people arguing over their opinions. I think this could be a very calm an interesting debate if the arguments were presented in the context of debating musical opinions, instead of the bitter context of debating where a web-zine reporter goes to see shows. I would also submit that by adopting a more calmly debate structure, one may even be able to convince a reporter to come to a show of their choosing, to get a first-hand look at their side of the argument. I think everyone has valid points in this thread, but those points are being congested by anger, quick typing and capital letters. There are friendships to be had within conflicts of philosophy, and it seems to me that everyone in this thread enjoys the same thing; they just have slightly different opinions on the subtlties.
okay topic needs to be locked
Artistic expression is ,well, still artistic expression. Everyone has the freedom to have that
Oh God, can of worms... just opened
I'll be the first to say that hardcore is argue-able the most worthless genre of music to ever have come out of the bowels of our lexicon. There is no soul, no tone from any instruments, nothing meriting true and meaninful artistic expression. If you want to call me overly opinionated and close minded; I will say this...Listen to the music again and consider maybe you're so open minded your brains leaked out. It is a surreal moment to have played on a set with other hX bands, knowing full well our music was out of place. The very night of which I type of, a cookie cutter hardcore band with mesa boogie amps and cabs in which the "guitarists" honestly had no idea how to work the settings, the lead singer with his ridiculous look comes out and says sadly "This song is called 'Everyone's pretty but me..'--AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH" Seriously? --Aesthetically missing the 209, but not musically.
I think 209claws Up has made a valid point, He is disappointed that the genre he loves so dearly is being overlooked. But don't we all agree that Hardcore, or whatever you classify it as, is one of the most misconceived genres out there? Especially in a slowly emerging entertainment scene here in 209. Yes, people are upset with constructive criticism, yes people are disappointed with the lack of coverage, and yes we all need to work harder at pleasing everyone, BUT SERIOUSLY... This is getting personal. Look 209claws up, do something productive with your time rather than being a bully and singling out one person, when your problem actually consists of the millions of people that live here in 209 should be held accountable for why you feel disappointed. Things take time, which is why your "TRUE" scene is still emerging. This emerging "SCENE" needs this kind of criticism, which is why ANYONES opinion should be valuable to you :/
Haha Internet tough guy? How so? I only Said something about my podcast because that is where i addressed the review first and that was the reason for the blog in the first place, Otherwise I wouldn't have stated anything about it. 2nd I am not stirring up anything, She asked why was she getting blamed and I told her because Ian wrote in this blog specifically mentioning her name. And what stance did i change? Tell me that? i mean its cool you want to call me a tough guy but when was i acting tough? and is Saying all of that not being the same Internet tough guy u are accusing me to be? This is me... http://www.myspace.com/regimenigga I am not gonna run my mouth without people knowing who I am. I am No "Tough Guy" I just Firmly Believe in the 209 Hardcore Scene.
looking at all the comments one does realize this is no longer about the original issue, it's now all about 209clawsup who has decided to hate on the writer, try to stir up discontent between staff members and Ian Hill, change his stance, shamelessly advertise his blog and booking skills and become a HXC INTERNET TOUGH GUY LOL! typing incorrectly and in caps doesn't make us fear you it makes you look unprofessional. I believe you have better things to do than troll this website and bawwwwwhhh over 9000 times on this website love your local internet hate machine<3
Dan... My Favorite hardcore band? where did that come from. When Did I say anything about Anyone saying things about my favorite hardcore band? and for Gilltron... Is this "209Vibe street team member Jordin Harris has been ruffling some feathers lately with her reviews of local hardcore shows" not putting Jordin out for everyone to blame her instead of the both of the authors? and As for JORDIN: I ONCE AGAIN WILL SAY THIS: I wasnt only blaming u for the lack of coverage. I Have told Ian how the Modesto, Tracy and Ceres areas feel about 209vibe, and once again it was IAN who posted ur name as the one doing these reviews in THIS BLOG. and another thing. I DIDNT DISS LA CIRCA! I LOVE LA CIRCA I Just dont feel that they are all too creative with their style but noone at the 209 vibe seems to point that out.
You diss La Circa for being cookie cutter but like it's been said before they are the band that sells out shows they deserve the hype and attention. Ian didn't "put her out" he was stating that the review that she CO-wrote brought a lot of attention. Jordin and Peter voiced thier opinion they shouldn't be crucified because they don't think every hardcore band is amazing. What is the real scene? 209vibe tries to cover as many events as possible and as diverse as possible. Jordin didn't try to ruffle any feathers she just wanted to share her opinion and it's cool that your stating yours now but it seems like what started as a good a argument is now being trolled
Holy, crap. First off, its important to take people's opinions for what they are. Opinions. If you don't like what Jordin or Peter said about your super duper favorite local hardcore band, at least try and consider why they might have said what they said instead of getting defensive. Second of all, proper syntax is always a kickass way of making yourself sound legitimate and intelligent. It really hinders your argument when I can't understand what the hell your sentence means. Love, Dan
Even then, you still need to take this up with Ian instead of attacking individual people. Someone is always going to be left out. Showing up to every single show doesn't make a fan more qualified to be a critic than I am. Everything that you listed is exactly what I do for this site. And yes, I am allowed to get angry with you when you attack me personally over an issue that seems to have more to do with the site itself. There is a difference between what you are doing and being a critic. It's one thing to say that you don't like the reviews, that I don't really care about, but it's another thing to come after someone for their opinion. If you want other stuff to be covered, tell Ian. I can't magically make it happen. I go where I am asked to go and where I am able to go. End of story.
first off... to the person that commented after me, I didnt say anything about bands being cookie cutter other than on my podcast, what I said was The blog says to be original yet the vibe covers the cookie cutter bands, WHAT I MEANT WAS THAT PART OF THE BLOG WAS HYPOCRITICAL. As far as Jordan, I know that U dont pick the cover stories, I wasnt addressing the vibe as just being u, Im sorry that I didnt comment twice each time to clear that up. And Fans are the MOST IMPORTANT Critics. If they dont like U they wont go... is that not a critic, when they tell a band the songs arent as good as before or the show was amazing is that not being a critic, when they talk about the shows to friends who couldnt make it is that not being a critic? There is a scene other than A skylit drive and what the 209 vibe... There are kids being left out of what the vibe does and that is what i talked to ian about. I know U personally dont run shit on here but ur reviews, To be honest I just think they suck but u know what thats me being a critic so u cant get mad at that either...right? "209Vibe street team member Jordin Harris has been ruffling some feathers lately with her reviews of local hardcore shows." That is why the shit is all coming to u... even Ian put u out on it
You know what, I am starting to think that you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to the site, You're making it seem like I'm the one that picks the cover stories and picks which bands go on the site. A person that shows up to a show every week to support a locals is not a critic, they are a fan. Like I said before, if you want to come up here and take me to a "real" hardcore show, then be my guest. I do have a life outside of the scene and obligations. Also, I respect the hardcore scene, which is why I have started trying to do more hardcore shows in Stockton, so don't you dare question my amount of respect. It's quite clear that you have no respect for the people that work hard to do reviews for this site.
Woah...Woah... Woah... First off lets get things straight, this blog was written for the sole purpose to explain that criticism is made to benefit and promote change, if you have a problem with what is getting covered and what is not, THEN SUGGEST WHAT YOU, AS ONE FROM THE 209 "SCENE", WOULD LIKE TO GET COVERED. This should be done instead of personally attacking someone, who is just doing their job(and puts ALOT of heart and soul into it as well). -Second, bands considered "Cookie Cutter" are what are in demand, just like you see in the media. The bands that get more attention are what the general public demand. Of course, MANY people think that it is unfair, but are they doing anything to support their favorite bands to get them to that same level? Every musician must accept that what they play is going to affect people in a different way. This is the beauty of Free Speech. -Last, We at 209vibe are honored to have people like Jordin Harris and Peter Davis VOLUNTEER their time to help bring a professional voice to an overall general public. Although you may not agree with what they say, you must also take into consideration that what they say is not meant to offend, discourage, or discriminate against anyone. Their views are meant for suggestions to bands, and any band with true virtue would take that to heart, might disagree, but use those criticisms to better their musicianship. So really, if you think we are not doing our jobs, suggest, (and I mean do SUGGUST, not attack), have respect, and keep supporting what you love. That is all we ask, because we are here to support our community as well.
What high horse, There is no high horse here... U can say what u want to me and throw in shit like that but bottom line is I worked my ass off for the last yr to build a legit site for promotions for the scene, I know what Ian is trying to do with this site and I respect that but when it throws out the reviews that u and others do and they seem more like U just wanna throw in clever lines to talk shit on shows that are built around a genre then it makes 209vibe seem out of touch or at least stretching. The Real Critics of the scene are the ones who show up everyweek to shows and support locals not just tear them down. Learn something, there is no HIGH HORSE just my view of a lack of respect.
I would be different if I wondered why they all sound the same, but I wasn't. I was stating that they all sound the same. Those are two completely different things. If you would like to drive up here and take me to a "real" hardcore show, I would be more than happy to do so. I want to support the scene, but having the means to do so is the issue on my end. So, get off of your high horse and try to actually hear what I'm saying.
Of course you are entitled to you opinion, noone said u werent. But come on, Like I said in my podcast... U cant go to a modesto underground show and wonder why the bands sound cookie cutter... same as 180 teen center. That is how they book... Why dont u do this: Plan ahead to go to a real hardcore or at least a real metalcore show at the rock or somewhere and Write a review on that. Our REAL scene gets NO SUPPORT from 209vibe. Legeia was a good start but once again if it wasnt for Return from exile or your own destroyer That show would have flopped. The Kids that like that music didnt even know the show was going on, 209 vibe doesnt promote to the scene. I Like what U are trying to do [209vibe] but support the real scene. A lot of bands get overlooked because they are too far from stockton... or at least that seems to be the case.
Ok, I am sick and tired for taking all of the heat in this situation. First of all, I did not write that review on my own, so try reading the names at the top and you would have noticed that fact. Secondly, I am entitled to my own opinion of the shows that I do attend, so suck it up and deal with it. Thirdly, I would love to go to every single hardcore show in the area, but that's not possible, obviously. I have tried to bring good bands up to the area, such as Ligeia and Since The Flood, so don't try to tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about. I cover the shows that I am able to go to and that I am asked to go to. I would have loved to go to the Warriors show and I really did want to go, but I do have school and other things in my life that take priority.
Ok... As A Supporter of the REAL hardcore scene I dont see how 209 vibe can post this "The 209 has a big enough scene that we should expect it to be inventive, original and talented; we should be setting the trend, not following it." and then at the same time do cover stories on LA CIRCA and The Screamo Scene. I like La Circa but come on, all that music is Trendy yet they get cover stories? bands like YOUR OWN DESTROYER are innovative not Screamo bands and that real. And if Jordan Harris is such a hardcore fan, where is she when the rock has shows, when the workshop does, casa nachos, or when the thunderdome was filled to capacity. Dont talk about the cookie cutter bands but at the same time Put all the shine on them. I mean come on ELYSIA and THE WARRIORS played here, The closest to a big "hardcore" show and where were the reviews? The Used and the devil wears prada gets all the attention... If you truly wanna help the 209 METAL/HARDCORE scene get bigger...and stay alive... Keep an ear to what the real 209 kids support, not just travis' venues or national acts like the used. Criticism is always welcomed and needed but not from someone out of touch with what the direction of music is heading to. The SCENE isnt these kids that go to one show a month, the 209 SCENE are the kids who shed blood and sweat for the locals every week. -SIK 209claws up
Good pep-talk. My general rule of thumb for overcoming my feelings towards negative critisism is to sleep on what I've been told. You'll find that it's not going to bother you as much in the morning and you'll be able to reply with a more professional attitude. -K